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	<title>Comments on: Software Engineers of India &#8211; Software Coolies or not?</title>
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	<link>http://blog.gurupanguji.com/2006/06/14/software-engineers-of-india-software-coolies-or-not/</link>
	<description>Thoughts, ramblings, rantings of Renganathan Ramamoorthy</description>
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		<title>By: Software Engineer??? or Coolies? &#171; KSpace</title>
		<link>http://blog.gurupanguji.com/2006/06/14/software-engineers-of-india-software-coolies-or-not/#comment-23125</link>
		<dc:creator>Software Engineer??? or Coolies? &#171; KSpace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Guru Panguji</title>
		<link>http://blog.gurupanguji.com/2006/06/14/software-engineers-of-india-software-coolies-or-not/#comment-1406</link>
		<dc:creator>Guru Panguji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hmmm, yeah that is what I am talking about. We are slowly getting into the &quot;core&quot; work. 

Btw sukhi, what do you mean by &quot;security services&quot; I didn&#039;t exactly get that part :-D!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm, yeah that is what I am talking about. We are slowly getting into the &#8220;core&#8221; work. </p>
<p>Btw sukhi, what do you mean by &#8220;security services&#8221; I didn&#8217;t exactly get that part <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> !</p>
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		<title>By: Jaes</title>
		<link>http://blog.gurupanguji.com/2006/06/14/software-engineers-of-india-software-coolies-or-not/#comment-1340</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gurupanguji.wordpress.com/2006/06/14/software-engineers-of-india-software-coolies-or-not/#comment-1340</guid>
		<description>Well, it all began with Y2K coolie level jobs but slowly companies like IBM are moving real hard-core research jobs into its development centers. IBM employees have grown from 4,200 in 2002 to 43,000 this year - that&#039;s a sign that they&#039;re moving work that they once did elsewhere to India. IBM still hires people in  USA because of their superior higher education system, but they then deply them in India.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, it all began with Y2K coolie level jobs but slowly companies like IBM are moving real hard-core research jobs into its development centers. IBM employees have grown from 4,200 in 2002 to 43,000 this year &#8211; that&#8217;s a sign that they&#8217;re moving work that they once did elsewhere to India. IBM still hires people in  USA because of their superior higher education system, but they then deply them in India.</p>
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		<title>By: Guru Panguji</title>
		<link>http://blog.gurupanguji.com/2006/06/14/software-engineers-of-india-software-coolies-or-not/#comment-1252</link>
		<dc:creator>Guru Panguji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 03:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gurupanguji.wordpress.com/2006/06/14/software-engineers-of-india-software-coolies-or-not/#comment-1252</guid>
		<description>Not at all man!! :-)!

Exactly, the pay package is what I was talking about! Consultants are definitely paid more, by the hour. However, even the pay package is decided based on the hourly rates. So, that&#039;s why the build up was given.

Yes, for that matter, the SAP Netweaver technology platinum consultants are paid exorbitant rates dude! Something like around $450.00 per hour and more :-D! I was talking about the regular employees. And I confirmed, the going rates sound definitely right according to the post :-D!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not at all man!! <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> !</p>
<p>Exactly, the pay package is what I was talking about! Consultants are definitely paid more, by the hour. However, even the pay package is decided based on the hourly rates. So, that&#8217;s why the build up was given.</p>
<p>Yes, for that matter, the SAP Netweaver technology platinum consultants are paid exorbitant rates dude! Something like around $450.00 per hour and more <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> ! I was talking about the regular employees. And I confirmed, the going rates sound definitely right according to the post <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> !</p>
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		<title>By: sukhi</title>
		<link>http://blog.gurupanguji.com/2006/06/14/software-engineers-of-india-software-coolies-or-not/#comment-1233</link>
		<dc:creator>sukhi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 13:30:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gurupanguji.wordpress.com/2006/06/14/software-engineers-of-india-software-coolies-or-not/#comment-1233</guid>
		<description>Thanks mate. (hope it wasnt sarcasm!)

A pay package is vastly different - its a fixed thing, and given for employees. Consultants, and outside hires - even temps maybe - get hourly rates. 

From what I have seen, hourly rates for yanks working at the client site start around 150$ or so. Indians charge much lesser - both figures for consultants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks mate. (hope it wasnt sarcasm!)</p>
<p>A pay package is vastly different &#8211; its a fixed thing, and given for employees. Consultants, and outside hires &#8211; even temps maybe &#8211; get hourly rates. </p>
<p>From what I have seen, hourly rates for yanks working at the client site start around 150$ or so. Indians charge much lesser &#8211; both figures for consultants.</p>
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		<title>By: Guru Panguji</title>
		<link>http://blog.gurupanguji.com/2006/06/14/software-engineers-of-india-software-coolies-or-not/#comment-1231</link>
		<dc:creator>Guru Panguji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 12:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gurupanguji.wordpress.com/2006/06/14/software-engineers-of-india-software-coolies-or-not/#comment-1231</guid>
		<description>Dude, you enlighten me everytime :-)! Hehehe!!

But yeah, regarding the pay package... Simple, it&#039;s for a 1 year experienced person with a skill set of Microsoft technologies would be getting about $80,000 per annum and now just calculate back!

Regarding the Indian billing, are you completely sure? Either that or I was grossly misinformed!!

Will post after discussing with some people :-D!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dude, you enlighten me everytime <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> ! Hehehe!!</p>
<p>But yeah, regarding the pay package&#8230; Simple, it&#8217;s for a 1 year experienced person with a skill set of Microsoft technologies would be getting about $80,000 per annum and now just calculate back!</p>
<p>Regarding the Indian billing, are you completely sure? Either that or I was grossly misinformed!!</p>
<p>Will post after discussing with some people <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> !</p>
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		<title>By: sukhi</title>
		<link>http://blog.gurupanguji.com/2006/06/14/software-engineers-of-india-software-coolies-or-not/#comment-1228</link>
		<dc:creator>sukhi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 12:07:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gurupanguji.wordpress.com/2006/06/14/software-engineers-of-india-software-coolies-or-not/#comment-1228</guid>
		<description>I shud&#039;ve just written a post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I shud&#8217;ve just written a post!</p>
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		<title>By: sukhi</title>
		<link>http://blog.gurupanguji.com/2006/06/14/software-engineers-of-india-software-coolies-or-not/#comment-1227</link>
		<dc:creator>sukhi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 12:06:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gurupanguji.wordpress.com/2006/06/14/software-engineers-of-india-software-coolies-or-not/#comment-1227</guid>
		<description>Anyone terming what our industry does as mostly a coolie&#039;s job is correct to an extent - but is missing a big chunk of the picture.

&quot;Software industry&quot; per se is an industry. Which means its going to have all the trappings of a regular industries - services, products, vendors et al.

Most biggies of the industry are into services, because, lets face it - its easiest to make money in services - AND services, are the hallmark of advanced economies, I kid you not. A good economy will generally tend to have a lot of services contribution to it followed by similar amounts of agriculture and industry - that is 3 pillars of the classical economy  - primary, secondary and tertiary industries. In India service industry contributes to &lt;b&gt;half the economy&lt;/b&gt;.

Now, just because a lot of the Indian IT industry is in the service industry does not mean its bad per se. IBM - the BIGGEST software co is wholly into services now, after selling its PC biz to Lenovo. So IT services per se is not bad - and is lucrative as well. 

One can complain that there are not too many product companies in India - but there are never too many product companies anywhere - and its the US that has the bulk of them anyway - any other country doesnt even come a distant second.  

That doesnt mean I think its great to have too many service oriented industries - but that I think its unavoidable. Cos IT services is vastly more needed than product development - and even there, we&#039;ve some mid-sized cos operating, like Subex, for example.

btw, Guru, I&#039;m curious about your figures on hourly rates. From what I know its way too low for the Yanks, and for the Indians as well.

and this:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Now, here’s the bad deal. So far India hasn’t received exactly top-notch work for many reasons -

    * It hadn’t proved to the “offshoring” companies that it’s a major player, involving issues like information security, and various other aspects
    * It was too keen in earning money to concentrate on research work
    * They were too comfortable in not taking any responsibility for ownership related work
 &lt;/blockquote&gt;

is wrong. All of it. Check out the Indian presence among security services, for example - there are plenty of Indians there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone terming what our industry does as mostly a coolie&#8217;s job is correct to an extent &#8211; but is missing a big chunk of the picture.</p>
<p>&#8220;Software industry&#8221; per se is an industry. Which means its going to have all the trappings of a regular industries &#8211; services, products, vendors et al.</p>
<p>Most biggies of the industry are into services, because, lets face it &#8211; its easiest to make money in services &#8211; AND services, are the hallmark of advanced economies, I kid you not. A good economy will generally tend to have a lot of services contribution to it followed by similar amounts of agriculture and industry &#8211; that is 3 pillars of the classical economy  &#8211; primary, secondary and tertiary industries. In India service industry contributes to <b>half the economy</b>.</p>
<p>Now, just because a lot of the Indian IT industry is in the service industry does not mean its bad per se. IBM &#8211; the BIGGEST software co is wholly into services now, after selling its PC biz to Lenovo. So IT services per se is not bad &#8211; and is lucrative as well. </p>
<p>One can complain that there are not too many product companies in India &#8211; but there are never too many product companies anywhere &#8211; and its the US that has the bulk of them anyway &#8211; any other country doesnt even come a distant second.  </p>
<p>That doesnt mean I think its great to have too many service oriented industries &#8211; but that I think its unavoidable. Cos IT services is vastly more needed than product development &#8211; and even there, we&#8217;ve some mid-sized cos operating, like Subex, for example.</p>
<p>btw, Guru, I&#8217;m curious about your figures on hourly rates. From what I know its way too low for the Yanks, and for the Indians as well.</p>
<p>and this:</p>
<blockquote><p>Now, here’s the bad deal. So far India hasn’t received exactly top-notch work for many reasons -</p>
<p>    * It hadn’t proved to the “offshoring” companies that it’s a major player, involving issues like information security, and various other aspects<br />
    * It was too keen in earning money to concentrate on research work<br />
    * They were too comfortable in not taking any responsibility for ownership related work
 </p></blockquote>
<p>is wrong. All of it. Check out the Indian presence among security services, for example &#8211; there are plenty of Indians there.</p>
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		<title>By: Ms.Imperfect</title>
		<link>http://blog.gurupanguji.com/2006/06/14/software-engineers-of-india-software-coolies-or-not/#comment-1221</link>
		<dc:creator>Ms.Imperfect</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gurupanguji.wordpress.com/2006/06/14/software-engineers-of-india-software-coolies-or-not/#comment-1221</guid>
		<description>I merely used a very simple, everyday phrase and you managed to write a post outta it... :D
Damn, how do you do it??!!! :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I merely used a very simple, everyday phrase and you managed to write a post outta it&#8230; <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Damn, how do you do it??!!! <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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